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Aug 24, 2021
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24. President, LFY Consulting

24. President, LFY Consulting

On this episode, Jeff and his guest Dr. Benjamin Ritter explore meaning and purpose at work. Ben is President of LFY Consulting, and is an executive, leadership, and career coach who runs corporate wellness workshops for LFY. He is an organizational development expert and has an MBA and master’s in public health from the University of Illinois at Chicago, and a Doctorate in Organizational Leadership and Education from Pepperdine. Ben is a TEDx speaker, and his impressive client list includes Amazon, Bloomberg, Door dash, Google, Pinterest, and Yelp.

Ben and Jeff discuss how leaders need to be the ones to empower their employees, and to hold them accountable for creating careers that they can love. Ben shares how one’s job description is not fixed, and how employers will often flex the description to allow the employee to be more productive and fulfilled.

They talk about why so many employees, managers, and executives today feel stuck in dead-end jobs that are not meaningful, or with companies that do not have a compelling and motivating purpose and core values. Ben shares his “TEAM” model of management which includes Trust, Environment, Actual work, and Meaning, and how nurturing these aspects can lead to greater engagement, performance, and culture.


Intro: Duration: (01:59)

Opening music jingle & sound effects

Jeff Hunt:

Hi everybody I'm Jeff Hunt, and this is Human Capital a Goaslpan podcast. On Human Capital, I interview top business thought leaders to uncover the deeply human aspect of work. In today's show, we will explore what it means to reach your full potential at work. Reaching your full potential means being fulfilled, which is both life-giving for the employee and financially beneficial for the employer. To be fulfilled in what you do involves both intentional thinking and actions.

Unfortunately, many employees, managers, and executives today feel stuck in dead-end jobs that are not meaningful, or with companies that do not have a compelling and motivating purpose or core values. This is one of the reasons why we are seeing what is being called the great resignation in 2021. My guest today is going to help us unpack some of the complexities around this topic.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter is president of LFY consulting, and Ben is an executive leadership and career coach who also runs corporate wellness workshops for LFY. He is an organizational development expert and has the credentials to prove it. A bachelor's degree from Loyola, Chicago, an MBA and master's in public health from the University of Illinois at Chicago, and a doctorate in organizational leadership and education from Pepperdine.

Ben is a TEDx speaker and his impressive client list includes Amazon, Bloomberg, DoorDash, Google, Pinterest, and Yelp. Welcome, Ben. It's great to have you on the show today.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

I'm excited to be here, Jeff. Hopefully, we can increase our potential help others increase their potential.

Topic 1. Who or what inspired you to go into business? (02:00)

Jeff Hunt:

Before we start, take us to the beginning of your career, help us to get to know you a little bit. Share what person or event inspired you to go into business. Ultimately launching your own consultancy.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

The main pivotal moment was when I was working as a healthcare executive and was feeling pretty resentful towards my employer because I thought they were supposed to give me meaning they were supposed to basically hand me fulfillment on a silver platter.

And that didn't happen. Actually, I was working in a different position for that employer and was feeling like my work was pretty meaningful. I felt like I was pretty fulfilled with what I was doing. Just didn't really feel like I was also being challenged to a point. I wasn't at my potential.

And so I was promoted into this executive-level role, but a lot of the things that I felt were meaningful were stripped away. And so I was in this place at work where I felt stuck, I felt like I wasn't really doing what I was supposed to be doing. I didn't really know what I should be doing, but I knew that my organization, or at least I thought I knew it at that time, that my organization should have solved that problem for me.

And because they didn't, I was mad at my CEO, my VP. I was resentful towards the projects that I was doing. So I really just pulled away from the work, pulled away from social relationships. And I lived in this space for way too long, way too long. It influenced how I acted in my relationships outside of work.

How I networked, just generally how I lived my life day today. And there was one specific morning when I was walking into work and yes, it was that good of a job. I could actually walk into work. That for some reason I looked up and I started making eye contact with the people around me. And it all felt like.

They were feeling the same thing that I was. As a side hustle at the time, I was a personal coach. I knew a lot about personal professional development. I was really good at understanding that I really controlled the things that happened to me. I was very proactive in every area of my life, other than work.

And at that specific moment, it hit me. Wait a second. I also can be proactive at work. I do have control over how I'm living each and every single day. How I show up, what I'm feeling, how I'm reacting to what I'm feeling. And so at that moment, I decided to put the hard stop, say, I'm not going to feel this way, and started crafting my position to be the best fit for me at the time to create that fulfillment, to create that meaning that I thought my organization was supposed to give me.

And that was actually holding me back from being a high performer, a high achiever, and continuing to grow in the organization, specifically towards work that I cared about.

Topic 2. Where does fulfillment come from? How does organizational purpose relate to job satisfaction and the connection to fulfillment? (04:56)

Jeff Hunt:

So it sounds like your, you were really relying on fulfillment to come from somewhere else and it can never fully come from somewhere else. Can it? It has to come from within us, is that?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter: 100%. And that became the foundation of how I started building my programs, my systems, and ultimately the platform on how I believe that everyone can create a career that they can love. But I also believe that leaders need to be the ones to empower their employees and to hold them accountable for creating that career that they can love.

Despite the fact that the employees are the ones responsible. They need to know that they are, and they need some help along the way.

Jeff Hunt:

And so if you look at organizations and playing off of what you're saying right here. How does organizational purpose relate to job satisfaction and the connection to fulfillment?

Alignment, engagement, purpose. How do these all come together? Because it sometimes feels to people like this stuff is in the ether. And so to get pragmatic for the employee who's struggling, or suffering, or feeling some of the things that you were just describing, that you were feeling, talk to that person for a minute.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

It's a great lead-in because there's a big part of my story before that moment, after that moment, that is important about why I do what I do. And it's a practical example of how other people can do it for themselves. If an organization is willing to go along for the ride, mine was for the initial bit, but then fell off.

And so really when I had that moment, I really asked myself, what do I care about? What is the type of work that I feel is meaningful? And I had work that was meaningful in the past. I was able to actually go through previous projects, interests, passions, etcetera. Things that I've worked on. Things I've been interested in working on everything from what I did in school to things I heard people doing to projects that I myself worked on.

And I created a list of work that I felt that I was good at, that I was interested in. And then I asked myself, well, what work do I want to work on in the future. What skills do I want to develop? And created that list. And then who might I want to work with? Who are the people that I really enjoy spending time with? and made that list.

And that led me to professional development, talent management, talent development at the time. That was just completed 16 months of leadership training through the organization. I was coaching, as I mentioned on the side before that, prior to that, years before I received a federal grant for free life coaching, there were multiple things that popped up that showed that I wanted to work as a professional coach and to help organizations become places that people can really thrive.

And feel that they feel that they're in the right place. They're doing the work that is meaningful. And so, I took all that information and I tried to craft my position. I went to my VP, I made a pitch for the work I wanted to do. I connected with my previous leadership coach at the organization and learned about what they're doing, what the projects were.

I connected with corporate. And I started really getting involved in projects to start slowly but surely feeling that my work was more meaningful, more aligned with what I care about. And anyone can do that. Your job description is not concrete. Your job description was something they used for recruitment purposes.

And so what you're doing, and I bet everyone listening to this too, it's probably doing things that are out of scope of their job description. And so you can actually say, well, what do you want to start doing? What do you want to stop doing? What do you want to continue? And who are the people that you want to do that with? And then start having conversations with your leadership.

Jeff Hunt:

What it sounds like you're saying is that the very first step is defining what is most important to each of us, and trying to get rid of some of the ambiguity around what do I actually want? What is motivating to me and fulfilling to me? And so would you say that that is a precursor of everything else? If you haven't sort of created that undergirding, you can't go to the next step.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Clarity is a hundred percent the most important thing for, I think anyone because clarity feeds into confidence. It feeds into understanding where to prioritize your time. It helps you feel empowered when you're in meetings.

It helps you understand what projects to volunteer for what to say no to. 100% clarity is essential. And this also plays a role in executive presence. We're going to talk about this soon. I mean, we have a couple of conversations coming up together where your vision as a leader, what does leadership mean to you?

So the same thing, what does meaningful work mean to you? That clarity being able to define terms explicitly for yourself and to come up with examples for yourself is important for you to take action and for you to feel motivated. So for example, in that experience for myself, the clarity was. I care about the development of other people. I'm inspired by that. And I also care about engagement programs and processes of organizations, and I was able to understand, well, why is that important to me? And even pull back the layer there. And so then I forever will have a source of motivation and meaning. Even if I'm doing a project that isn't exactly related to what I feel is important.

I can pull meaning from it, pull motivation from it, or I can say, no, I don't want to do that. So clarity is essential to steering your ship. It is basically the map and where you want to go and where you want to travel.

Topic 3. The importance of clarity (10:48)

Jeff Hunt:

And some people listening, as I mentioned in the introduction are probably feeling very stuck in the role that they're in and talk for a minute, Ben how do people get into this state, what keeps them stuck? And I know also you have a course that is titled craft a job, you love from a job you have. And so to the person who is just really feeling stuck, why do they get stuck? And what counsel do you have for them?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

We tend to react to our professional life. So we apply to jobs that we see on job boards. That's reacting because they're available to us. We accept the job from someone that reaches out to us and recruits us. So, it's very likely that where you are in your career is due to circumstances that were presented to you.

Not ones that you've created, and that lack of control in itself leads to feeling stuck. But also when you're in a job that same mentality, that same lack of control leads to feeling stuck eventually over time. Some people don't really have strong boundaries with work. So for example, maybe you're working too late or the scope creeps of your job.

Now you're doing things that you didn't really plan on doing, or don't really make sense to you, and you don't really feel empowered to be proactive. And so all of a sudden, now you're working in a way that doesn't feel right to you in a job that never really is what you chose, and potentially with people that you don't really like because you're telling stories about how they are.

Maybe you had a bad experience with them, and all of those things add up. And you don't just automatically feel stuck one day. It is a prolonged experience of different inputs that leads you to feel like you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. Mainly from a lack of clarity and a feeling of lack of control.

And you don't have control because you don't have clarity.

Topic 4. Are fulfilled employees, high-performing employees? (12:52)

Jeff Hunt:

Does this lead to employee relations problems in organizations? And what I mean more specifically is if an employee is really not feeling fulfilled in their job, maybe they start feeling resentful. Even though each person is empowered to shape their own and craft their own future and their own career. But. Does it indirectly lead to produced morale and employee relations problems or what's the correlation? If there is one.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

I get asked a lot if feeling stuck and feeling unfulfilled and it's going to increase turnover. And employers have to realize that the fear shouldn't be turnover, the fear should be disengaged employees.

Employees that are just posting because they're so sick of their job, but don't really understand how to change it. And don't really understand how to leave.

One of the best ways to tell if an employee is disengaged is basically to take a look at their levels of engagement. I know that's kind of an interesting line, but are they attentive in meetings? Do they speak up? Do they share their ideas? Are they attentive and other means of communication such as teams or slack or email?

Do they, not go beyond the project, but do they think creatively, and are they a little bit more innovative? Or do they just do the amount of work that needs to get done? These are very simple ways to tell them if an employee is engaged or not. And if you have one-on-ones, hopefully, you do. You can also assess levels of engagement by what this employee is sharing or by bringing up topics such as what are your goals?

What do you care about? You can ask them the same questions that can help inspire meetings and see what they respond with. Now, if they are confused and if they are a little internal. They don't really feel like sharing. This is your opportunity as a leader to share yourself and to ask follow-up questions.

Because if you can get a disengaged employee talking about what they feel is meaningful, if you can create some clarity around the type of work that they want to do. And what challenges they want to face in the organization for work. And you can follow up on that as a leader and create that for them in a way, and help guide them towards that.

You can change a disengaged employee from a high achiever, into a high performer and engaged individual.

Jeff Hunt:

And by the way, that's much more fulfilling as a manager anyway, if you can do that. Right?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Well, one of the main issues is that this tends to happen because of disengaged managers. So it’s tough, right?

Because you don't want to focus on the employees. You want to focus on leadership. The trickle-down effect is very real. If you have any bit of poison in your senior leadership or in management that is going to infect the entire department and potentially the organization.

Jeff Hunt:

I'm kind of fascinated by the strategies that you just described because they're all actually around common sense and sort of very basic human things and an analogy I think of is. If you're a manager or a leader and, the analogy is thinking about walking through the park.

So you have a destination to get to the other side. And you can walk directly to the other side and be hyper-focused on arriving at that point. Or you can walk through the park and recognize the birds that are singing, and the family that's there, and the children that are playing in the play structure.

And that's almost what feels analogous to our role as leaders are just paying close attention and using common sense and leaning in and being aware of all of our employees and how they're acting and responding. At any time and all the different modalities that we communicate in, right?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

So, when I first started working, I was really mainly focused on one-on-one coaching and crafting a job you have into a job you love.

So working with an individual, and I was asked to start hosting leadership training programs. And so how do we teach leaders to do this for their employees? And so I created the team that model of managing to motivate. This is like you said based on common sense and it's not just slowing down and treating someone like they're human, but it's actually focusing on the work.

Managers, I think and leaders think they're focusing on the work by creating deliverables, but that's not what creates an environment that motivates employees. It's focusing on the actual work, how that person works. So do you mind if I quickly go through, the team model of managing to motivate?

So it starts with trust. So you create some strategies on how a leader can build trust with their directs. And then once you have trust, you can get the other information that you need. So, for example, next, you focus on the environment. What resources does the employee need? What situations do they deal with consistently that they might need support with? And who do they engage with and interact with?

So social relationships on a daily basis. This is the environment that the employee works in. Which became incredibly different when we locked it down. So when we were dealing with how to really manage remote workers, a lot of that has to do with resources because they're totally now having to learn how to work in an environment that they have never learned how to work in.

The next piece is the actual work. So what are the projects they're working on? What projects do they love to work on? What projects might they want to work on? What projects do they dislike working on? This is what I talked about before. And then also more importantly, can you engage them to solve consistent issues they have?

So can you actually help them feel valuable in helping them solve their own problems or solve the organization's problems? The next piece, this is the last piece is meaning. What do they feel is meaningful about their work and how do you help them engage with that and see that on a daily basis or connect that with the organization's meaning as well.

And so it's pretty simple, common sense, but we tend to forget it.

Jeff Hunt:

Yes, for sure. And I want to just underscore the importance of meaning also at the corporate level, because if you haven't done a good job defining vision, mission, core values. Why do we do what we do as an organization, what your role is in helping us fulfill that?

What sort of difference are we making to our customers or society? What kind of problems are we solving? Isn't that more difficult for the employee in terms of their own personal mission and meaning and purpose?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Well, that's a tough question because I don't know if it's more important, but it can impact them.

Probably in a more significant way, because it's apparent in everything that's happening and everything they're doing. And I think if you have a very aware employee, that's walking into an organization if they hold their meaning as more significant then there'll be more resilient. For example, when I define what was most important to me, I can enter into an ambiguous situation into any organization that has miscommunicated their values or misaligned, their values and be fine.

So I think that if someone understands meaning for themselves, that actually is a very strong employee that can withstand a lot of change. If an organization isn't clear in their values, and the meaning that it brings, then you are, are going to impact probably more of your employees because that level of resilience is less common when it comes to just the individual self-awareness of their levels of meaning what they feel is important.

Topic 5. Values-based hiring. (21:00)

Jeff Hunt:

So, should we be recruiting with these elements in mind as well to make sure employees do have a good, solid sense of their own clarity?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

You're just asking the perfect leading questions. It is values-based hiring. I mean, not just from an assessment, I don't think an assessment is how you need to hire, but through specific questions about your organization's values and communicating them, and asking questions about someone else's.

That's projects they work on or passions and interests are going to be very important to create a value-aligned organization. What tends to happen though, is an organization spends time on values, and discovery, and alignment, and then it will fall to the wayside. Like for example, as working with a senior leader, he did a lot of work on team-based values.

They communicated, they developed it, and then it kind of fell off and. Every week, they have a stand-up meeting with everyone in attendance and the values are nowhere to be seen, but these are team-based values that were developed from the team. So they're going to fall into the shadows, any new hires, never going to know what these values are.

And so just, if you are going to do some values work, be sure that you are consistently integrating them into everything that you do as an organization.

Jeff Hunt:

And just to clarify what you're saying about everything that you do in the organization. It sounds like what you're referring to is not only hiring and recruiting but onboarding.

And once we are within the organization, our communication strategies and maybe even our performance management and feedback strategies for employees. Make sure that they are structured around these critical elements. Is that correct?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

I'd much rather see a values list integrated into a performance management system than arbitrary goals that are set at the organizational level that they try to waterfall down to departments where it doesn't make any sense.

That's like a specific gripe of mine. But if you have a certain value, it needs to be embedded in your KPIs that you're tracking, it needs to be embedded into how you communicate and your branding. They are your foundation. They are the breadth of the organization. They're what attracts talents, what pertains to talent. And it's what people will use to push through tough times and difficult days.

Topic 6. Success + failure = progress. (23:41)

Jeff Hunt:

Let's talk about the fun topic of failure for a second before we shift into some lightning-round questions. How can failure play a role in improving one's somebody's long-term career trajectory?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

The big F word. For failure. Failure does not exist in my dictionary. I would lead workshops on this topic pretty consistently in the past. And I would always ask the class, I'd say, what is the opposite of success? And lo and behold, the majority of the classroom would say failure. Then the other few people that didn't respond to that, it was a trick question.

And so then I say, no, the opposite of success is stagnation because truly what success or failure is, is really just progress. They're learning opportunities. And so I don't even know if success is possible without failure. I mean, it has to be because maybe just something always works out in your favor, but I've never seen that before.

And whenever I meet someone who's afraid of failure, I'll just do a quick Google of a famous list of failures. And you'll see a lot of our role models or people we look up to people that we would deem successful, failed the majority of their life. I was just at the Van Gogh exhibit and Van Gogh sold one painting his entire life, one painting. And then committed suicide because he doubted.

He doubted his own greatness. He was so distraught with himself and then there were some other issues there. There are so many examples of successful individuals that have failed consistently that probably would not have been successful if they have not failed.

Topic 7. Live For Yourself (25:38)

Jeff Hunt:

Such a good lesson for all of us really. So, the name of your consulting practice is LFY, or live for yourself and have permission to speak freely. Some people may feel that has sort of a selfish bent to it, but I know, that's not the true meaning. And so I'm wondering if you can explain how it's actually selfless instead of selfish, especially in the context of work.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

I work with people that have a value of benevolence or who care for the world. They're coming to me because they feel like their work doesn't have enough meaning. And you have this underlying value system of doing good for the world. Sometimes you tend to forget that you need to do good for yourself and live for yourself.

It kind of is a little selfish, to be honest, but it's to explore, define, and align your value system to your life. It's to create an environment around yourself that is easier for you to live in and more enjoyable. So, it's basically crafting to be more effective and efficient and happy in your daily life and at work, because if you know what your values are.

Then you know the types of relationships you should invest your time in, you know the type of work that you should do. You really know the hobbies and activities you should be spending your time on. And so then what happens is you create a life. Where you are yes living for yourself, but also living for the world in a way that is more effective and more efficient, more productive, and through a lens of greater happiness and, and openness, etcetera.

So it is a way to live a little bit more selfishly, but also a little bit more selflessly.

Jeff Hunt:

And what you're saying is that sounds like a leads to much more of a life fulfilled. Because if you are identifying what's most important to you in your life, and you're living a life of meaning and purpose, you'll be more fulfilled by the end of your life. Correct?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Yeah, and it doesn't mean to do anything against others. What live for yourself means is if you focus on yourself, what you can control, and then to bring your best self to the world, to your work, which ultimately again, is selfless. If you can show up to the world as the best version of yourself as constantly as possible as consistently as possible, I think you're probably going to create more good than you would if you weren’t.

Topic 8. Lighting round questions (28:16)

Jeff Hunt:

Okay. Let's shift into some lightning-round questions. But before we do, I heard that you may have had a bunch of jobs over your career. And I'm wondering if you could say a little bit about that. How many jobs have you actually had over your career?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Over a hundred. So, basically out of grad school, I also had this like two and a half year stint of getting full-time job offers, then getting them cut for me based on federal funding.

And so during that time, and actually, for years afterward, I worked a variety of different promotional gigs. And so that every week I'd have like a different job in it for a different company and doing in a different place and location. But prior to that, too, though, I just had a really interesting work life.

I think my mentality towards work was probably a little unique because as a kid, I went with my father to go fix homes. He had his own little home remodeling business, but he was a real estate agent. So went with him there too. This is the type of guy that would drive through alleys to pick up old toasters and refrigerators, fix them and sell them.

So I had a very interesting perspective on what work was because then I also wanted to be a professional soccer player. And so I never really thought I'd be like a nine to fiver. So it's interesting. I never really was this. It would never really was connected to meaning and fulfillment.

So I've kind of funny how I got to where I am, but I worked as a bartender, barback. I was a live cast model, so they poured plaster on me. I became a mold for mannequins in the civil war museum. I was a movie promo character. So I went around dressed as a zombie and a few other characters, just promoting movies, but also scaring people throughout the streets of Chicago.

I handed out flyers for banks. I did popups for Nintendo for, Kellogg's. I worked music, pretty much a variety of music festivals from Lollapalooza to all the other ones in Chicago at the time, it was a variety of different types of servers. I worked in public health and a variety of positions.

So as an actor, I did a little bit of modeling for a short stint. I was a dating and relationship coach. I launched a supplement company. There's a wide variety of positions that I've had. And personally, I really enjoy that because it lends itself to a lot of perspectives. And so I can work with a lot of different types of individuals. I feel comfortable in a lot of different types of environments. And I think that just in itself helps me.

Jeff Hunt:

Okay, so lightning round questions. What are you most grateful for?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

I guess I think my family, the starting point, I think in just the environment that I had growing up, it's played such an influential role I think, into where I got to today.

Jeff Hunt:

What's the most difficult leadership lesson you've learned over your career?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

That you are always going to be greater than your purpose. So for a large majority of my life, I wasn't led by this idea that I had to dedicate my life to something specific. When in actuality, you are the person that creates that no one else, so it can never be greater than you. And so instead I live my life by my values and what I care about.

Jeff Hunt:

Who's one person you would interview if you could? Living or not.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Esther Parral just because I love her perspective on relationships and human interaction.

Jeff Hunt:

What's your top book recommendation? If you have one

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

If you like novels that have meaning, the alchemists or Ishmael are both amazing. When it comes to your psychology look up the book of reframing or frogs into princes by Richard Bandler.

Jeff Hunt:

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

The most important leader is the one that lives inside you. And can I give my own advice?

Jeff Hunt:

That's a great piece of advice. I love that. Say it again.

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

The most important leader is the one that lives inside you.

Jeff Hunt:

Fantastic. I know you and you've invited me to one of your events, which I'm very honored to be a part of. What are some things going on for you?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

Yeah, pre shut down I was hosting a lot of in-person events, probably two to four a month, and then post shut down. I actually moved all virtual. And so now hosts two to four events virtually per month. So there's one on September 1st on the keys to executive presence.

So I'll be leading the workshop doing going over my definition and the keys that I believe are important to developing executive presence. In a panel event, which you will be speaking at on the 22nd of September with some incredible executives that are going to be discussing their own journeys and executive presence and what it means for them.

And then there are a few with some other organizations happy to share those. If people want to reach out to me.

Jeff Hunt:

And how can they find you?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

You can go to LinkedIn type in Dr. Benjamin Ritter, and I will pop up. Cause I'm your connection requests and send a message. Do you want to learn more about coaching services or things that I do or podcasts, workbook courses? it'll be liveforyourselfconsulting.com. That's liveforyourselfconsulting.com

Jeff Hunt:

And what's the single most important thing you want our Human Capital listeners to take away from our talk today?

Dr. Benjamin Ritter:

The way that most people operate in the work environment, even finding new jobs is by reacting to opportunity. They had placed in front of them, reacting to the projects they get.

Reacting to the job opportunities they receive reacting to you're not going to get promoted. So you go look for a position and that you lose a lot. When we go to a restaurant more than likely to look up reviews, when we are going to stay in a hotel, we are more than likely to look up reviews. When we date somebody there's a lot of, there's a huge probationary period before we dedicate all our time and effort energy to them.

Why don't we do that for work? And by the way, when you get something that you don't like at a restaurant, you tend to send it back. And we don't do that in the work environment either. Som let's feel a little bit more empowered and accountable for our own work fulfillment. And let's take the reins or the wheel and start steering the ship.

Jeff Hunt:

Ben, thanks for all the wisdom you've brought to the show today. This has been great having you.

Outro (34:54)

Closing music jingle/sound effects

Jeff Hunt:

Thanks for listening to the show this week. We release a new episode of Human Capital every other Tuesday. I would love to know what you thought of this episode, so please email your comments to humancapital@goalspan.com. Human Capital is produced by GoalSpan, a performance management technology and consulting company. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and please share this podcast with your colleagues, team, or friends, thanks for being human kind.

Human Capital — 24. President, LFY Consulting
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